So at the end of last year I really and/or finally (at least gear wise ) dove head first into synthesis or whatever term seems more correct, getting myself a Moog Grandmother and it kinda spiraled from there. Now I've hit a point where I'm just not able to do anything, I keep forgetting what the controls mean/do (which has taken me a long time to learn/understand, so that's frustrating, haha!) and don't experience it as having as much "scope", "range" or whatever as I initally did. Also, there's two other points worth mentioning here:
1. I can't seem to gel with drum machines!
I've never been a drummer but writing for bands (guitar/bass/vocals) I've always had a clear vision of how I want the drums to sound etc. However, I'm finding it REALLY difficult to come up with beats or any percussive elements. I've got a DFAM and intitially, when I got it thought "Wow! It's amazing how much I'll be able to do with this, but now can't get anything out of it but annoying series of noises.
2. Composing/writing.
I've not listened a lot to electronic music in my life, still don't and in general am really picky with it. Mostly find myself enjoying the sounds more than the songs. And perhaps that's the problem, cause I can't for the life of me figure out what to do except drones (which is fun, but I want to be able to do more!). I'm really struggling here.
Maybe I'm just being impatient and need to realise it really IS like learning a new instrument from scratch (vs guitar/bass which I've done for 18ish years now). But still...
HALP!
How do you guys go about making/using your electronic stuff?
The DFAM is not really the best for "beats" but its got its own sound that nothing else really does... I'd suggest looking at a simpler drum machine that has presets like an old Alesis SR or Akai XR20 that has a mix of real and electronic drums to get the basics down... Find some artists doing Electronic music you like and listen to the sounds and how they compose their tracks... A lot of it is recognizing what "instruments" make what sound and since you have a Grandmother it should help you identify what's what... Check out some artists doing "in the studio" stuff on YT or channels like Sound On Sound to see how people really use the equipment they have... Practice and record and delete and record and practice and record and delete till you find something you like... At the end of the day it's really just about making sounds you like even if other people don't get it, have fun and just keep doing it...
Thanks for the tips and encouragement to keep going! I think trying to get more/different gear is something I want to stay away from at the moment, as I spent a lot of time thinking (and eventually money) before I got what I have now, even though it's not working at the minute. To watch vids on others is a good idea for sure (any faves/recs?), but I'd also be interested to know how people on here work on their electronic stuff. Concepts, ideas, struggles, flow what makes a song etc to get a "creative" perspective on things.
Forgetting shit all the time is par for the course, I think. At least for me, I have a handful of synths, noiseboxes, grooveboxes, and if I put them away for 6-8 months (not uncommon) I have to dust it off and re-learn stuff. But I get back to where I was a whole lot faster than if I was coming in cold, I just can't explain it to someone else what I would do off the top if I've been on a break.
But one thing that might help might be re-framing your idea of electronic music. Maybe, instead of thinking about it as a genre, you might have more success if you think about it like a workflow. I think a lot of people go through phases where they listen to, say, a lot of drum and bass, and while they might never want to make DnB tracks, there are things that those musicians are doing that you might try to keep in my back pocket for later on something else. Same thing you might do with, uh, Surf Rock or tech death or R&B or whatever, and at that point it doesn't really matter if it's electronic or "non-electronic" music.
A really good genre for this might be taking a historical sampler of reggae & dub, which has a lot of live band to electronic producer crossover, but where the musicians are all playing recognisably similar music.
D.o.S. wrote:
But one thing that might help might be re-framing your idea of electronic music. Maybe, instead of thinking about it as a genre, you might have more success if you think about it like a workflow. I think a lot of people go through phases where they listen to, say, a lot of drum and bass, and while they might never want to make DnB tracks, there are things that those musicians are doing that you might try to keep in my back pocket for later on something else. Same thing you might do with, uh, Surf Rock or tech death or R&B or whatever, and at that point it doesn't really matter if it's electronic or "non-electronic" music.
I like this approach. I read guitar magazines (really just Premier Guitar) not because I like the music that the musicians make but because I like to hear people think about how they approach the instrument. Is there anything like that for synths? I browse the forums, etc., every now and again but I don't want to wade through a bunch of bullshit. Is it all on YouTube?
Yeah I don't know any offhand that talk about the instruments in particular (although The Quietus do pretty good interviews more centered on ideas and process), so YouTube would be my first guess as well. Maybe the now-defunct Red Bull Music Academy series is a good place to start?
The Bug: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5WUmstfmKg
PanicProne wrote:Mostly find myself enjoying the sounds more than the songs. And perhaps that's the problem, cause I can't for the life of me figure out what to do except drones (which is fun, but I want to be able to do more!). I'm really struggling here.
Start recording the drones you like making, and listen back to them. Take your time! Figure it out. Sometimes, just those drones might be enough. But eventually, you might start hearing other parts that might fit, adjusting sounds here & there, etc.
Having a process and doing it every day will work out in the long run, whether it's playing an instrument, writing a poem, or riding a bike. Set aside a time every day and do just that thing for that time. Your instincts will sharpen, and so will your overall focus. Innately, we are all animals that crave routine, like eating and sleeping at the same hours each day.
Showing up for this process is the most essential thing you can do. The reality of this will always yield varying degrees of successful results in the day-to-day. Being absolutely terrible at something is always the first step toward being great at it.
Hopefully you can figure out what's important to you & whatever gear you choose to make whatever sounds you want to hear. Don't worry so much about what to call it...just do it! Write it out your ideas, record sounds from nature, sample other people's records, play your guitar...do whatever you need to do!
I feel like most interviews with any artist I read inevitably turn into a lesson on how they craft their work, which all vary widely across disciplines. However, the one constant is that aforementioned showing up, assessing their work, and returning to the churn of creation, on and on and on.
Just keep in mind analysis takes place on one side of the brain, and creativity takes place on the other!
And, please, try and have some fun, no matter what! That's really the most important thing.
Some examples I can think of:
Richard D. James has been spending the last half of his current releases writing on/for on specific device (usually a synth), and adding elements of other devices as he sees fit. He also records constantly, and there's also the tale that he keeps a workstation of gear at his bedside to work on material before he sleeps and right as he wakes up in the morning, which are times he explained are less critical and more open, due to the haze of exhaustion (twilight) and still hanging onto remnants of a dream-filled sleep (waking up).
Autechre (booth/brown) work separately on tracks via their own proprietary software, but for years worked in MAX/MSP, which became their common language to work together, sometimes working on bits of tracks for years, but always working to finesse specific sounds that they wanted to hear, or could manipulate found sounds into something entirely new. They only work inside the box, as it were, and never record acoustically.
Tim Gane used to take a few weeks alone and write out songs for future Stereolab albums, demo the arrangements/lyrics with the groop, and embellish just about every part of those demos in the studio until they were "almost completely unrecognizable" (to paraphrase him for a moment), which was his ultimate goal for a record. I know you don't have a groop at your disposal, which is a double-edged sword, but perhaps try to imaging thinking like a drummer, or a horn player, or a tympanist, or a mezzosoprano (or manipulating your instrument into being one) would help, or trying to walk a mile in their shoes, for some perspective.
Also? You are a living, breathing well of your own personal musical history. Your brain has a lot of aesthetic fundamentals in it you've parsed into your own personal tastes, and I'm sure there's something inside of those you'd like to share with the world, rite?
PanicProne wrote:Mostly find myself enjoying the sounds more than the songs. And perhaps that's the problem, cause I can't for the life of me figure out what to do except drones (which is fun, but I want to be able to do more!). I'm really struggling here.
As someone that went through a phase where I took things too seriously.. bought a moog.. and a davesmith and got wayyy into the kontact soft synths too much.. you can burn yourself out once you move past the having fun to achieve some wired technical idealisms.. you end up with music you don’t want to listen to because all you hear is things you could tweak and change… in the end I learned I hate programming drums.. hate going down rabbit holes… and now all I want to do is jam loud rock shit and make weird noises I guess I’m thankful that I got to reaffirm who I am and what I like to do…
Have fun, make drones, make noise, make dumb stuff that amuses you
Coming back with a (sort of, ILF really never was and definitely isn't that fast anymore) late reply. Thank you so much guys! After reading all your replies it really helped me take the pressure off and just start enjoying it. I've been trying to get 1-2hours, 30mins, sometimes even 15 minutes in whenever I can. It's like when I'm at home I have this happy thought at the back of mind the entire time that there's I've a fun-station waiting for me. I'm still not making any "serious" tracks, but I'm really enjoying it. It's really lifted any anxiety I had about "not understanding" or "not being good enough" or "doing something wrong" and instead inserted lots of creativity and playfullness (is that a word?). I'm super happy and excited about it. Thanks everyone!
Edit: It's still super hard! But also very enjoyable
This thread compelled me to uncover my Makenoise stuff and it was totally easy to use and fun even though when I put it away it felt incomprehensible. Sometimes a fresh start is transformative.
Funnily enough just found this thread while loading samples onto things to play with my synths for the first time in a bit. Occasionally I'll get in my head about not making good things with synths, not being proficient in comparison to guitar, just making pointless bleeps.... But I got into it to have FUN, not to become Skrillex. And it's FUN to twiddle some knobs and make weird noises. Hopefully we can both capture this fun experimental childish energy into the future!!
sonidero wrote: I'd suggest looking at a simpler drum machine that has presets like an old Alesis SR or Akai XR20 that has a mix of real and electronic drums to get the basics down...
i would recommend the HR-16 over the SR-16; most of the sounds on the SR have added reverb you can't get rid of. the big buttons on the HR are also much easier to use to program stuff, and you can even play it live by hitting the buttons assigned to the different drums. i used to leave it set up on my coffee table in the 90s plugged into the stereo and play live drums along with the videos on MTV. i set mine up with two snare samples and two kick samples pitched 1 cent apart to give more realism to rolls and fills. doing more complicated programming is a pain because the display is tiny and you have to scroll through an entire sequence to adjust one individual note, especially when you use the trick (which i came up with on my own but was apparently one of Craig Anderton's recommendations is his HR-16 book) of setting the tempo to half of your intended value so you have twice as many steps to offset notes for a realer feel. but for simple quantized shit it's hella simple. just watch out that you don't end up with one on which the buttons are worn out.
In girum imus nocte et consumimur igni
FIFTY YEARS OF SCARING THE CHILDREN 1970-2020--and i'm not done yet
D.o.S. wrote:A really good genre for this might be taking a historical sampler of reggae & dub, which has a lot of live band to electronic producer crossover, but where the musicians are all playing recognisably similar music.
there's a whole techno sub-genre based on combining Berlin techno and dub, exemplified by the Basic Channel and Chain Reaction labels, occasionally called "dub techno." there's been an enormous crossover of concepts from dub to various forms of electronic music.
In girum imus nocte et consumimur igni
FIFTY YEARS OF SCARING THE CHILDREN 1970-2020--and i'm not done yet
) dove head first into synthesis or whatever term seems more correct, getting myself a Moog Grandmother and it kinda spiraled from there. Now I've hit a point where I'm just not able to do anything, I keep forgetting what the controls mean/do (which has taken me a long time to learn/understand, so that's frustrating, haha!) and don't experience it as having as much "scope", "range" or whatever as I initally did. Also, there's two other points worth mentioning here:
HALP! 
you end up with music you don’t want to listen to because all you hear is things you could tweak and change… in the end I learned I hate programming drums.. hate going down rabbit holes… and now all I want to do is jam loud rock shit and make weird noises 
I guess I’m thankful that I got to reaffirm who I am and what I like to do…
