in the absence of competent advisors... or how to succeed in politics without really trying

[eggy in a bready]

dude is a perfect 10 as far as his civil track record is concerned.

[snipelfritz]

What do you guys think about Bernie Sanders leaving the stage after his rally was disrupted?

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/ ... ailsignout

idiots.

i'm all for a chill lack of security present at engagements like this, but it's not really beneficial if he can't even address his supporters. i think you might need to beef up security, B.

It's not even security necessarily, but a professionally run organization can't just let anyone wander on stage and take the mic. It's pretty easy to just cut off their sound. Who is going to want to speak at an event there now.

Protesting needs to be innately disruptive in some way, but this is just stupid and disrespectful and dilutes their message. Why they would protest Sanders is stupid too. Why not police conventions or something? (I know the answer to that)

[AxAxSxS]

There is a lot people here who are of the opinion that this was an intentional sabotage, initiated by backers of the Hillary campaign. Some have gone so far as to trace the money back.
A friend who was close enough to hear what wasn't picked up on the Mic had a different take on it, saying that they had just wanted to speak for 5 minutes, but failed to effectively communicate that. Bernie himself was supposedly motioning for the organizers to let them speak, but that's not how it shook out. I don't know what to think. the sabotage angle makes the most sense, but this easily could have been good intentions gone awry.

[Gone Fission]

There's a bit of a symmetry between the BLM event hijacks and the segment of the GOP base going for Trump in part out of disenchantment with the official party. People have delivered votes and legwork and support to parties and campaigns for years based on the promises consistently made that their issues matter, that they matter. On either side, the people and their issues routinely seem to take a back seat to business and the wealthy, and the lack of energy, priority, and urgency is acutely felt. So outlets are gonna be found.

Yes, Bernie is objectively good on civil rights, so the targeting seems strange. But he's been slow to say much about civil rights issues, especially related to police violence. I think the focus on him is in part to put pressure on him to make him put some priority on those issues, but there's the catch--is talking enough at this point. He is a sitting Senator. Maybe they're hoping for him to introduce legislation or something? I dunno, the messaging ain't clear. Then again, seems worlds more rational than backing Trump.

[D.o.S.]

Saw a Matt Pike for President bumper sticker the other day.

I can get behind the sentiment. The country is pretty fundamentally fucked.

[Mudfuzz]

NSFW: show

I didn't watch the debate last night, but I'd be interested in hearing people's opinions who did.

Ye, I was watching fairly intently at work. Here's my run-down (of course this is from a Democrat's attempted objective perspective)...

The Obvious
Trump was Trump. Chris Wallace (one of the moderators, a FOXNews conservative) hit him pretty hard with a couple questions asking to be specific about his immigration claims and some f his contrasting opinions over the years. Substantively, Trump kind of floundered over these questions and failed to give a real answer, but he gained his footing halfway through and managed to power through with the 'tude.

Oh, it should also be noted that at the very beginning they asked who would NOT pledge their indefinite support for the eventual nominee baiting Trump to claim something to the effect of "I'll support the nominee if its ME" and not deny he wont run as a third party candidate.

Here's that moment (and expect more sassy Rand later):
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtiiTe9onww[/youtube]

The Top Tier
Jeb Bush: What do people see in this guy? He's bland, uninspired, but I'll admit, I've always thought that. And to be fair, that's what won Mitt the nomination in 2012. He played his cards pretty close to his chest, relied a lot on his record as governor. In his own words "He is going to have to earn this." He will, but being the party's assumed front-runner is one hell of a down-payment.

Scott Walker: Also took very little risks. I was actually surprised he relied very little on his actions as governor. He spoke more on his ideals/principals related to abortion and immigration (partly a reflection of the questions he was asked), but ultimately held himself together well enough for his first time under this kind of national scrutiny.

The Middle of the Road
Marco Rubio: Rubio has always be kind of underwhelming to me. He's always been talked about at the "Next-Generational Candidate" but never really seemed to put the face and the fervor to that title...until last night. He had a good performance and certainly achieved his goal as claiming his stake in the GOP field.

Rand Paul: Hoo baby! We knew some of these 5% and lower candidates were going to have to come out fiesty for attention and Rand delivered. He played the role of "instigator" throughout the debate taking an early jab at Trump on his disloyalty to the party and getting into a heated little spat with Chris Christie on counter terrorism and collection of phone records. Ultimately, I don't think Rand Paul gained anything last night besides more fervor from those who already support him and more ire from the establishment who are fed up with him.

Chris Christie: Reminded us why he was considered a presidential hopeful from the moment 2012 ended. He gave a solid performance and stood up to Rand Paul's attacks on national security tactics. Christie made good use of the "Governor's advantage" in highlighting his extensive experience in an executive position.

Here's that argument by them because it was probably my favorite moment of the debate:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKkJ-K8qPXo[/youtube]

Mike Huckabee: Quite at home on FOXNews, he did the kind of pandering he is good at. For his final statement, he looked straight into the camera and spoke right to Aunt Ginny and Uncle Stu down on the farm. As conservatives have as a whole, he's backed off on "Family Values" (I don't think the phrase was mentioned once) in favor of "religious liberties" addressing the perennial liberal boogeyman. He may catch flack for a comment he made that the purpose of the military is to "kill people and break stuff" but the debate in general took a pretty hawkish turn towards its latter third.

Ted Cruz: Continued to argue that he's not "A Washington Insider" hoping to undercut Trump falling out of the race. Hammered the point that he's not part of the "Washington Cartel" despite being a US Senator. Also, hard on immigration as to be expected. No surprises from him.

The Outliers
Ben Carson: Will definitely be the first to go in this race. He seemed to counter attacks against his lack of political experience with "well I'm smart, I can figure it out." I'd give him more credit, but his natural, calm demeanor seems to work against him in a time when he really should be exuding confidence.

John Kasich: Had to balance a lot of factors like being new to the race and being (probably) the most moderate in a FOXNews proctored debate. However, he drew energy off his homestate crowd and gave one of the best performances. He touted his experience in federal and state gov't, deftly defended his "support" for gay marriage and expanding medicaid, and I won't be surprised if he picks up a couple percentage points after the debate.

I feel Trump is only there to Make Bush and more importantly Hitler II.. I mean Scott Walker look more sane and electable #strawdog#

[snipelfritz]

Trump is renegade and the republicans hate it. He's making the primary seem like a joke and somehow he's been successful. Trump is actually pretty predictable though. He's becoming repetitious at this point. It's just the reaction in the polls that has been surprising.

Of course Trump supporters are just massive idiots. Even if he never loses points (unlikely) when it's all said and done 20% won't win a nomination.

[D.o.S.]

furthermore they're mostly all low-information voters which means that he's unlikely to make it past the primaries anyway because the people that vote for Trump don't vote in those.

[AxAxSxS]

Here's the PNW inside scoop as much as I have been able to discover.
The Seattle BLM people at the event have lost faith in the political process. Sanders, Clinton, Trump, Bush, whomever, they see them all as belonging to a corrupt system that does not recognize their issues. Looking at the history of it all and the continued stream of murder by cop that has been going on, kinda hard to fault them.
Sanders was specifically targeted because he draws enormous crowds. They went there demanding 5 minutes, a brief statement and then 4 and a half minutes of silence to honor the 4 and a half hours brown was in the street before receiving any sort of medical attention. (may be hazy on specifics, but that is the jist.)

A music friend was there, at the podium and said that Sanders agreed to let them speak, but that the Seattle event organizers acted with confusion, and the large crowd started to shout down the protesters. He also said he has worked with one of them on other issues. They were not outside agitators as many have surmised.

As to what it accomplished? the next day The sanders campaign brought out a new page in the Issues section entitled "Racial Justice" https://berniesanders.com/issues/racial-justice/
And appointed Symone Sanders, a young black activist to be the campaigns national press secretary. She was pretty awesome while introducing bernie. Likely all of this was in the works already, but the response was swift and kinda on point.

All that said apparently Bernie now leads Clinton in the NH polls. Without corporate funding.

In a perfect world, IMO, accepting corporate sponsorship should make you unelectable.

[Chankgeez]

Interesting, Ax, interesting.

Yeah, I just saw that Sanders is leading Clinton in NH.

I like Sanders more than most of the other candidates, but I'm still not sure he has much of a chance. Remains to be seen. (Since NH is right next to VT, I'd expect him to have a little more popularity there than elsewhere.)

[D.o.S.]

I can't figure out if Sanders is actually popular or if it's just a byproduct of where I've lived and what the politics of most of my family + friends are.

[Chankgeez]

Yeah, this early in the game presidential candidate popularity is always a weird thing.

[snipelfritz]

I can't figure out if Sanders is actually popular or if it's just a byproduct of where I've lived and what the politics of most of my family + friends are.

Yeah, Sanders is going to have trouble really pulling center-dems in middle America. It's not impossible, his economic populism could gain ground in a more progressive Midwest state like Minnesota, but Iowa democrats aren't going to be weened off their Hilary fix that easily.

I think most dems (and some independents) could get behind his actual policies and he would likely mobilize the young left in the general election similar to Obama in 08. If he keeps up his momentum and is really on point in the debates, he has a shot.

Of course this is assuming Biden doesn't jump in the race. Who knows what effect he will have. It's really pretty up in the air if he is running at this point.

[Chankgeez]

Well, the thing about Obama in '08 is that Hillary shot herself in the foot. If she does it again, Bernie Sanders may have a chance.

[snipelfritz]

Yeah, no matter what, Sanders still has a long uphill battle ahead of him. Hilary knows not to take her establishment for granted this time, but it's still no small advantage.